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Vale Deploys Robots to Assist in Maintenance of Copper and Iron Ore Operations in Brazil

Vale says it has been investing in different models of robots to assist employees in maintenance tasks, helping to remove them from risky situations…

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This article was originally published by International Mining

Vale says it has been investing in different models of robots to assist employees in maintenance tasks, helping to remove them from risky situations and contributing to the company’s objective of becoming benchmark in mining safety. Currently, Vale works with three main robot models: two developed by the Vale Institute of Technology (ITV – Mining), which resemble “carts”, and one acquired from international supplier ANYbotics, ANYmal, nicknamed by Vale as “puppy.”

Created in 2010, ITV keeps a robotics cell, which has been developing robots, drones and artificial intelligence (AI) solutions for operations. In 2015, Vale’s Speleology area started the SpeleoRobot project, which the following year was taken over by ITV in partnership with the Federal University of Minas Gerais (UFMG). The remotely operated robotic device, with cameras and a lighting system, capable of moving over rough terrain, was initially designed to help speleologists working for Vale by mapping caves close to operations.

As of 2017, the SpeleoRobot began to be tested in other operational functions, such as inspections in confined environments, which are difficult for people to access. Inspections have already been carried out in pipes, galleries and drains, in addition to services in plant equipment, such as mapping of ball mills and inspection of crusher teeth. The SpeleoRobot has already been used in more than 15 different services in the operations in the Brazilian states of Minas Gerais, Espírito Santo and Pará. Its interchangeable locomotion system allows the robot to move using wheels, tyres, treads or legs, providing mobility conditions on different types of terrain, and its sensing system allows for high resolution inspection, generation of three-dimensional maps, in addition to other modular capabilities.

Recently, some of the robot perception modules developed by ITV were exchanged with NASA, the US space agency. “These modules are being validated for use in an international underground robotics challenge,” comments researcher Maira Saboia, from ITV. ITV is producing three more units of this robot, which will be leased to copper operations in Pará and iron ore operations in Vitória (Espírito Santo) and Itabira (Minas Gerais), where they will be used in inspections of mills, pipelines and other confined environments.

The Robot for Inspection Services (ROSI) is also being developed by ITV, in partnership with the Federal University of Rio de Janeiro (UFRJ). Designed since the beginning of the project as an inspection tool in Vale’s operational areas, ROSI focuses on conveyor belts, a critical piece of equipment for mining. For this, ROSI carries a robotic arm capable of acting with dexterity in the operational environment, being able to reposition sensors and collect samples in places with difficult access. The robot began to be developed in 2017 and is currently in the testing phase.

“These robots were created within Vale by the employees themselves and are a constantly evolving technology,” explains researcher Gustavo Pessin, from ITV. “Development is open-source, completely open from hardware to software, and its structure is modular. Everything that is developed can be used in other robots and equipment and adapted to new situations or functionalities using resources within Vale.”

In addition to developing equipment at home, Vale is also acquiring ANYmal, a quadruped robot created by ANYbotics, a Swiss company. Already used in other industries, the robot was adapted for mining operations with the support of a team from Vale. This year, a proof of concept was completed at the Cauê iron ore processing plant in Itabira (Minas Gerais). The success of the tests convinced Vale that it should purchase a unit of the robot. During the proof of concept, the robot manoeuvered around the platform and overcame obstacles such as going up and down stairs. It created and displayed a digitised map of the area under inspection, executed route planning and defined the way forward, focused on specific objects and instruments, transmitted images, recorded thermal images with temperature measurements, among other functions.

Using the robot minimises human exposure in hazardous locations, in addition to allowing remote asset inspection and data collection so that more effective decisions can be made. “With the robot, we eliminate risks pertaining to inspection activities, such as rotating equipment parts, noise and dust,” explains Rayner Teixeira, operational analyst responsible for developing Anymal at Vale. “We also eliminate activities that have ergonomic risk, where the employee would need to perform a task in an uncomfortable position. The robot also gives us access to confined spaces, like the inside of a mill.”

The robot will be used to carry out inspections of the grinding unit and the three-dimensional map of the Cauê mine. In addition to the gains in employee safety, a reduction in the number of stops and maintenance costs is expected, as well as greater reliability in inspection and the collection of parameters to control the performance of assets in real time.

The company concludes: “Innovation is key for Vale to improve people’s lives and transform the future together with society. In its strategy, the company prioritizes safety, reliability, low carbon agenda and generation of shared value. Ongoing safety innovation initiatives aim to remove employees from risk or reduce their exposure through the use of technologies such as autonomous vehicles, among others; identify and resolve causes of accidents with motor vehicles and energy equipment through operator fatigue detection systems and proximity alerts, for example; and elimination of risk scenarios.”

The post Vale sends in the robots for maintenance assistance at its copper and iron ore operations in Brazil appeared first on International Mining.

Energy & Critical Metals

Toshiba, Sojitz and CBMM partner to commercialize next-generation Li-ion batteries with NTO anodes

Toshiba Corporation, Sojitz Corporation, and CBMM have entered into a joint development agreement for the commercialization of next generation lithium-ion…

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Toshiba Corporation, Sojitz Corporation, and CBMM have entered into a joint development agreement for the commercialization of next generation lithium-ion batteries using niobium titanium oxide (NTO) as the anode material.

One of the major requirements for rechargeable battery development is greater energy density and faster charging. NTO has twice the theoretical volume density of the graphite-based anode generally used in lithium-ion batteries. In June 2018, the three companies entered into a joint agreement to develop NTO’s potential as an anode material.

This work, led by Toshiba’s Corporate Research & Development Center, has reached fruition with the development of prototype cells, and the companies have now agreed to extend collaboration for accelerating development of mass production processes and the early commercialization of next-generation lithium-ion batteries.

Prototype cell & Niobium Titanium Oxide (NTO)

The three companies aim to commercialize high energy density, quick charging batteries in FY2023, mainly targeting application in commercial e-vehicles. CBMM has contracted with Volkswagen Caminhões e Ônibus, a pioneer in the development and serial production of electric trucks in Latin America, to mature this technology further in real application. Toshiba and Sojitz will support this project.

The NTO battery will be installed on new electric vehicle designed by Volkswagen Caminhões e Ônibus as a pilot project and parties will collect the valuable vehicle operation data.

Niobium (Nb), one of the metallic elements, is an important additive in the production of high-grade steel alloys, including high-tensile and stainless steel, and its ability to enhance strength while reducing weight has made it indispensable for automotive applications. Brazil-based CBMM is the world’s leading producer of niobium and is well-known for its strong technology and product development programs.

As CBMM’s shareholder and distribution agent in the Japanese market, Sojitz has cultivated the knowledge and capabilities needed to establish a stable supply system and assist in the development of different applications for niobium.

Towards commercialization, Toshiba aims to secure stable supply of niobium materials from CBMM and Sojitz, and the three companies will target to gain market share in the rapidly expanding secondary battery market by utilizing CBMM and Sojitz’s global network.

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7 Materials Stocks to Buy as Investors Look Forward to 2022

While materials stocks occupy the undesirable quality of competing for the title of most boring investment category, Wall Street might very well apply…

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While materials stocks occupy the undesirable quality of competing for the title of most boring investment category, Wall Street might very well apply a premium for dull holdings. For instance, while the S&P 500 index has been a solid performer — up 18% on a year-to-date (YTD) basis — over the trailing month, it’s down just under 1%.

Concerns about domestic economic stability, along with rumblings overseas has investors spooked. Not surprisingly, many folks are deciding enough is enough, taking their money out of risky ventures. While the U.S. market isn’t exactly a sterling opportunity, the reality is that over the long term — as legendary investor Warren Buffett implied — America represents a solid place to grow your wealth. And that sets up an intriguing scenario for materials stocks.

As you know, one of the reasons for President Joe Biden’s election victory last year was his promise to “build back better.” What that slogan translated to was a multi-trillion-dollar infrastructure bill, an initiative that if passed would augur well for materials stocks. Of course, fiscally conservative Republicans and moderate Democrats aren’t exactly thrilled at the scope of the proposal. Per the Washington Post, Biden is attempting to broker a truce within his own party ranks.

Given the acrimony — and sometimes sheer chaos — of the Washington machinery, it’s not entirely clear what will come of the infrastructure bill. But in terms of the viability of materials stocks, prospective investors might not need to worry so much about domestic politics. As it turns out, the situation in China — particularly the liquidity crisis of major property developer China Evergrande (OTCMKTS:EGRNF) — is much worse.

Therefore, a combination of faith in the American political process and cynicism that not many stable opportunities exist abroad casts a favorable light on boring but reliable companies dedicated to rebuilding from the novel coronavirus disaster.

Volatility-weary investors may want to consider these materials stocks:

  • International Paper (NYSE:IP)
  • Celanese (NYSE:CE)
  • LyondellBasell (NYSE:LYB)
  • DuPont (NYSE:DD)
  • Nucor (NYSE:NUE)
  • Southern Copper (NYSE:SCCO)
  • Olin Corporation (NYSE:OLN)

Just to be clear, boring investments don’t necessarily equate to insulation from red ink. As U.S. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen reminded us in an op-ed for the Wall Street Journal, we’re not exactly out of the woods either — far from it. Thus, it’s best to approach these materials stocks with the same due diligence as you would any other business sector.

Materials Stocks to Buy: International Paper (IP)

Source: Mark ONCE /

At first, you might be forgiven for rolling your eyes at International Paper. While materials stocks never registered highly on the excitement scale, International Paper also appears to be irrelevant. With so much emphasis placed on going green — and therefore digital — there doesn’t seem to be much room for IP to grow. The Covid-19 crisis has also placed importance on contactless transactions.

Nevertheless, growing is exactly what it’s doing right now. Certainly, 2020 was a rough year for International Paper, with its revenue down 8% from 2019’s tally. However, in the trailing-12-month period, the company is on course to generate $21.3 billion, up nearly 4% from 2020’s result. That’s not bad for a seemingly anachronistic investment.

In reality, materials stocks form the physical backbone of our economy, and International Paper is no different. True, we may be attempting to reduce our dependency on paper, but thanks to the mercurial rise of e-commerce during the lockdowns, packaging demands have accelerated. Additionally, IP is directly linked to seemingly mundane but vital goods like baby diapers and personal hygiene products.

Celanese (CE)

A photograph of various medical tubes attached to equipment in a hospital.Source: sfam_photo /

One of the peculiar dynamics of materials stocks is that while the segment as an investing opportunity doesn’t always bring the pizzazz, the underlying products and services are vital to everyday living. Take Celanese as an example. A global chemical and specialty materials firm, it’s not exactly a household name. However, it’s no hyperbole to suggest that Celanese represents the difference between life and death for its innovations’ ultimate end-users.

Among the many solutions the materials company provides, it has a robust healthcare and life sciences business. From drug delivery methods and devices to surgical and medical consumable solutions (i.e., tubing, respiratory equipment, dental products), it’s very likely that we’ve all come in contact with the Celanese brand.

If that wasn’t enough to pique your interest, the company also represents a vital cog in the 5G rollout — that’s right, it’s not just telecom shares that you should consider but also materials stocks! In this case, Celanese lends its hand through expertise in liquid crystal polymer solutions and other high-performance thermoplastics.

Materials Stocks to Buy: LyondellBasell (LYB)

A LyondellBasell production plant in Wesseling, Germany is seen at dusk.Source: Flagmania /

For those who are looking for value in their materials stocks, you might want to check out LyondellBasell. Based in the Netherlands, LyondellBasell is one of the world’s largest plastics, chemicals and refining companies. From high-level industrial applications to the most mundane activities, LYB features “background” relevance across the board.

For instance, a major component of LyondellBasell’s everyday solutions is in food packaging. According to Grand View Research, the global ready-made meals market reached a valuation of $159.15 billion in 2019, with experts predicting that it will expand at a compound annual growth rate of 5.5% from 2020 to 2027. That translates to global revenue of $244.3 billion by the end of the forecasted period.

Why is this important for LYB stock? The underlying company recognizes that consumers are looking for “the quick and easy solution” in their packaged food products, an attribute that LyondellBasell specializes in.

Best of all, LyondellBasell is the world’s largest licensor of polyolefin technologies, which have myriad applications in industries ranging from medical, filtration and transportation sectors, among others. Should the U.S. and other nations spark a build out, LYB could benefit handsomely.

DuPont (DD)

The logo for DuPont (DD).Source: ricochet64 /

One of the world’s premiere materials stocks, DuPont is synonymous with everyday products and innovations that we take for granted. From home goods to military applications, if you want maximum coverage in this sector with one name, DD stock would be it.

What’s particularly appealing about DuPont at this juncture is that it could be one of the most viable value plays among materials stocks. Similar to LYB and CE above, DuPont shares have printed some red ink recently. Over the trailing month, DD found itself staring at a 7% loss. And on a YTD basis, it’s down over 3%.

However, that could be due for a change because of our rapidly changing world. For instance, DuPont produces Nomex, a heat-and-flame resistant material that’s vital for protecting firefighters. As you know, climate change has contributed to record-breaking wildfires, which cynically drives demand for Nomex products.

As well, DuPont is famous for manufacturing Kevlar, which in addition to being vital for infrastructure is best known for undergirding military body armor. With our national security profile increasingly shaky, DD stock offers multi-tiered relevance.

Materials Stocks to Buy: Nucor (NUE)

Steel stocks: rods, bars and other forms of steelSource: Shutterstock

If you believe that President Biden can resolve conflicts brewing between high-profile Democrats and succeed in pushing through the infrastructure bill, Nucor will be one of the top materials stocks to consider. Billed as the “safest, highest quality, lowest cost, most productive and most profitable steel and steel products company in the world,” Nucor has a track record that few can assail.

At the same time, it’s appropriate to consider the risks, which are rather sizable. Obviously, if Washington acrimony succeeds in scuttling the infrastructure bill, NUE stock will look far less attractive than it does now. In addition, the underlying company is exposed to global growth dynamics; hence NUE’s sharp loss on Sept. 20 following China Evergrande’s default worries.

As a result of the nearer-term threats, NUE has been discounted sharply in recent days. Over the trailing month, it’s down 15%. However, if the government approves some level of infrastructure spending, NUE could benefit.

Also, Nucor provides steel solutions for the automotive industry, which has been a disaster due to the semiconductor supply crisis. Nevertheless, once that problem fades away, Nucor could swing higher on a demand ramp up.

Southern Copper (SCCO)

Piece of copper set against black backgroundSource: Coldmoon Photoproject/

Back in May of this year, some commodity analysts suggested that investors take a contrarian view on the copper mining space, arguing that it was undervalued compared to the target commodity. Further, they anticipated higher prices in the fourth quarter of 2021, suggesting that key copper fundamentals — including dollar weakness and a post-Covid-19 recovery trek — should bode well for the industrial metal.

Despite some key changes to the global economic forecast since then till now, many factors remain positive for copper. By logical deduction, Southern Copper could be one of the top materials stocks to buy once we work out of the present funk.

Moving forward, should the Biden administration succeed in its infrastructural buildout initiatives, Southern Copper stands poised to deliver big contrarian gains as the underlying commodity is critical to electric vehicle production. If the White House is serious about getting the U.S. economy to hit net-zero emissions by 2050, EVs will play a critical role.

Further, copper being a highly efficient conductor of electricity is also crucial for renewable energy systems. Thus, SCCO is one of the must-watch names among materials stocks.

Materials Stocks to Buy: Olin Corporation (OLN)

Olin Corp (OLN) logo displayed on a mobile phone screen representing dividend stocksSource: IgorGolovniov /

As one of the global leaders in chemical production — particularly chlor alkali products and epoxy — Olin Corporation enjoys relevant demand sources from myriad industries. As such, OLN will be among the materials stocks to gain an advantage from the infrastructure bill should it pass.

However, I can understand that some people might not be interested in buying shares that have anything to do with Biden’s policies. Following the Afghanistan debacle, the president doesn’t exactly have the confidence of the nation. But if you do happen to have hard feelings about the current administration, then OLN stock could be a cathartic wager.

In addition to chemical products, Olin owns the Winchester brand of ammunition. Due to the record-breaking surge in firearms sales, ammo prices have likewise shot through the roof due to dwindling supplies. Moreover, the ridiculous prices continue to be a challenge for the outdoorsman types.

Some reports indicate that the ammo shortage could last between 12 to 24 months. Moreover, threats of gun control policies could spike up demand for firearms and related products. Thus, the Biden administration is a perfect catalyst for OLN stock.

On the date of publication, Josh Enomoto did not have (either directly or indirectly) any positions in the securities mentioned in this article. The opinions expressed in this article are those of the writer, subject to the Publishing Guidelines.

A former senior business analyst for Sony Electronics, Josh Enomoto has helped broker major contracts with Fortune Global 500 companies. Over the past several years, he has delivered unique, critical insights for the investment markets, as well as various other industries including legal, construction management, and healthcare.

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Fireside Chat: The Commercial Future of Lidar is Vehicle Safety — For Now

Editor’s Note: This article is part of Joanna Makris’ Fireside Chat series, where she provides retail investors with the scoop on the hottest technologies…

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Editor’s Note: This article is part of Joanna Makris’ Fireside Chat series, where she provides retail investors with the scoop on the hottest technologies and trends from today’s business leaders, industry experts and money managers.

Source: JHVEPhoto/

Our latest Fireside Chat is a front-row seat to to one of the biggest investment cycles of the next decade: autonomous driving and vehicle safety.

Fresh off the company’s presentation at the IAA Mobility show in Munich, I had an opportunity to talk lidar with Dr. Matthew Weed, Senior Director of Product Management for Luminar Technologies (NASDAQ:LAZR). Weed, an optical scientist and member of the original engineering team at Luminar, has spent his career focused on commercializing advanced optics and photonics technologies in drug delivery, medical diagnostics, and now, the automotive industry.

When it comes to automotive driving and safety, most cars today use sensors including cameras and radar to help guide features like automatic emergency braking and lane-keeping assist. But, now there’s a new technology that promises to take automotive intelligence to the next level: lidar (Light Imaging Detection and Ranging). Basically, lidar uses laser light sensing to help a car develop a 3D map of its surroundings.

Lidar helps cars do the “seeing,” making cars safer as a result. But this technology also has the potential to completely change the way we think about driving — and even potentially create an “uncrashable” vehicle in the future.

Opinions certainly differ on whether self-driving cars are part of some dystopian Orwellian future or simply the logical progression of the merger between humans and machines. Regardless, you won’t find many cars using these high-powered laser sensors, for one very simple reason: they’re too expensive. The high price tag of early-stage technology means that fully-autonomous vehicles have been out of reach and way above budget for the general public.

But Luminar says that’s changing. It’s one of a handful of lidar companies saying they’ve have found creative ways to bend light and use technology like network processors to bring down their sticker price without sacrificing performance.

Eyes on the Prize With a Laser Focus

Luminar is the pack leader when it comes to lidar: it’s the only company with a production contract right now. It also has a $6 billion market cap, despite having generated only $14 million in revenues last year (remember, we said it’s still early).

The Palo-Alto-based company may be bending light, but it isn’t bending the truth when it comes to its relationship with Volvo (OTCMKTS:VLVLY). The Swedish automaker has partnered with Luminar to use lidar in new vehicles capable of hands-free, eyes-off highway driving beginning in 2022. That includes the  upcoming Polestar 3 from Volvo’s new electric-car division as well as a range of Volvo-branded cars and SUVs.

That’s no small endorsement. Meanwhile, the rest of the lidar pack is still in development-stage relationships with no orders to show just yet. 

Luminar’s Iris sensor uses 1550-nm wavelength lasers, as compared to the 950-nm wavelengths used by competitors. Critics say a major downside to 1550-nm lasers is that they require the use of more exotic semiconductors, such as indium-gallium arsenide, which tend to be more expensive. Weed discussed how Luminar has managed to bring down the cost and why the company prefers it over 950-nm, saying in part, “shorter wavelengths are much more hazardous for eye safety concerns” (For more background on the great “1550 versus 950” debate, check out my recent Fireside Chat with Omer David Keilaf, CEO of Innoviz Technologies (NASDAQ:INVZ)).

Regardless of their technology approach, lidar stocks have been under recent selling pressure, and LAZR is no exception: Luminar is down roughly 44% year-to-date.

A few factors are at play, ranging from a rotation away from high-growth futuristic stocks, to several new names to choose from in the self-driving space, including Ouster (NYSE:OUST) and Innoviz, both of which went public earlier this year.

But the promise of lidar technology, coupled with endorsements by nearly every major automaker, make this a perfect time for investors to do some diligence and make sense of this space.

Read on to hear Weed’s comments about modern car safety and why Elon Musk is wrong about lidar. We’ll get a better understanding of how the tech works and discover how Luminar addresses some of the shade thrown from other suppliers in this hotly contested space (950-nm lidar players, we’re talking to you).

Oh, and that hot gossip from the IAA show? About Luminar “pivoting” into safety from autonomous driving? Weed responds. Finally, he shares with us his vision of the future of autonomous driving: the ultimate merger of man and driver.

Luminar recently showcased a rather provocative video showing Tesla (NASDAQ:TSLA) vehicles which appear to be on autopilot crashing into standing crash test dummies. Tell us more about that. And tell us about your views on the state of autonomous driving today. 

Dr. Matthew Weed: Good question. And there was a lot of subtext that [isn’t] always obvious to pull out from everything that we’ve done. So what we’ve shown, and it’s a good culmination of what we’ve been driving to as a company for many years now, is really to show what’s possible at the vehicle function level with this new sensing technology called lidar. As you mentioned, everybody in the market is trying to figure out now, “what is this lidar thing?”  

Really, what it’s all about is giving a vehicle better understanding of what’s going on in the environment around it, in three dimensions and the full context. And what we showed at IAA in Munich last week is the result of our team building an entire software stack, from raw sensor data to actuation of a vehicle, the kinds of safety systems that are possible with this kind of sensing. 

And so what we showed there was an automatic emergency brake event at much higher speeds than most vehicles that are out in the marketplace can actually achieve now. And that’s one of the examples that we showed. We did show Tesla. They’re one of the leaders in the market space right now with vehicle capability. But the difference is, they’re still [unable] to address a lot of the core safety opportunities that lidar technology brings. And that’s really what we were illustrating there with that demonstration.

So break down lidar for us very simply. What is it, and how does it work at a fundamental level?

So you’re probably familiar with cameras — I mean, you’re looking at the result of camera data right now. It’s an image, it’s two-dimensional. You can do all kinds of processing to it to kind of “guess” at how far away things are from each other. But ultimately, it is two-dimensional data. 

Radar is kind of the opposite. Radar is two-dimensional data as well. But instead of having lots of information here, you only have information radially. So you don’t have the ability to understand what things are. But you can see how far away there might be something. 

What lidar does is, it kind of bridges that gap. It allows you to [have] the detailed understanding that a camera would give you, of the size and structure of objects, but also exactly how far away they are. So lidar is a technology that uses lasers to understand the distance to objects– but at camera-like resolution. And so we do that by timing the speed of light, and all kinds of really cool technological things, but that’s ultimately what it does and how it works.

So speaking of Tesla, Elon Musk is notorious for despising  lidar. And Tesla says that they can go it alone with cameras. So talk to us about your thoughts on that. Clearly every lidar manufacturer disagrees with Elon, but help us understand, what are the limitations of camera technology versus lidar?

So camera technology is ultimately limited to two dimensions. Anything that’s extracted with regards to three dimensions, which is what we live in, what the road space is, is inferred by the data. Now, the argument is that if a human with two cameras and a really good computer can drive, then why can’t a car? 

There’s two issues with this. The first is, human eyes are very good. And the human brain computer is very, very good as well. And so the equivalent of hundreds of megapixels of camera data is really what we have to bring to bear. 

The other thing, and honestly probably more importantly, is that at the end of the day, this whole thing is not about whether it might be possible to drive a car with cameras only.

The real question, and what Luminar has really been focusing towards is, will it be safer if it uses lidar technology?

And that’s really what we believe in, and what we’re starting to demonstrate now. Because ultimately that’s the goal. The goal isn’t to prove some academic case. The goal is to make vehicles more capable than what a human can do.

You know, humans, for as good as we are at driving — and it’s really quite incredible how a good driver paying attention can drive — we’re not always paying full attention. The conditions don’t always lend themselves to good driving. And so bringing new technologies like lidar to make these vehicles more safe is the real goal. It’s not about what can possibly be done with different sensors.

This space is also kind of an acronym soup of different wavelengths used by different companies, different architectures including MEMs-based. So help us understand some of the key differences. And what you see as kind of ‘pros and cons’ of some of the different approaches to the space.

So as you said, there is alphabet soup, there’s a lot of depth… [But] at the end of the day, for most of the world, I would [focus] on what is possible with the sensing technology, and focus less on trying to figure out for yourself who’s got the best tech. Let the markets kind of speak for themselves: who’s got traction? The hardest critics in the world are our customers. They’re the ones who are basing their business models off of the sensors they select. That’s the biggest thing I would say. 

But at a high level, wavelength is a really important one. We operate a longer wavelength than most of the landscape –1550 nanometers — which allows us to send a lot more energy into the world safely. Shorter wavelengths are much more hazardous for eye safety concerns, because they’re much closer to visible light. We use much longer wavelengths, further out in the infrared, [which] allows us to measure much further and much more resolution. 

Other than that, there’s a whole host of architectural decisions, which we’ve recorded, [and] actually run through. If you go to our website, you can see a kind of a sensory overload review of different architectures. But for now, I think that’s probably a good place to leave it.

Obviously, cost is an issue in this space. And critics will cite the 1550 nanometer wavelength as being prohibitively expensive. So I would love for you to address that and talk about where you see costs going and how close we are, from a price-point perspective, to getting to commercial mass adoption [of lidar].

A lot of work that Luminar has been doing over the last number of years is toward, exactly as you’ve said, to break down the assumption that it’s too expensive to operate these longer wavelengths. 

This assumption comes from two sources. One, comes from the fact that you can’t just go to the Internet as a random person and buy a bunch of 1550 nanometer components. And most of the lidar industry are not actually optics experts. They’re trying to buy what they can off the shelf, [and] their electronics experts are pulling these things together and [trying to] build something that is lidar. 

Luminar, knowing that we needed to go to these longer wavelengths to serve the market, invested really early in integrating that technology ourselves. And so, building that supply chain, leveraging what existed from telecommunications and from the defense community, to a technology base that is custom-designed for the automotive application space, but stands on the shoulders of these existing markets. 

The other challenge is the architecture stuff… if you design the architecture right, you end up minimizing your cost-reliance on the opto-electronic components — the receivers, the detectors, the lasers. Those bits will drive the cost of the sensors. And the fewer of those you can have in a sensor, the better.

Historically, there’s a lot of [these] technologies that cascade a whole bunch of receivers and lasers, and  single point-by-point “brute force” the problem. And those have really fundamental cost floors. Luminar’s architecture is a “one-to-one” and we scan that around the scene to capture the whole environment.

So architecturally and supply chain, being able to pull all this stuff together is really what’s allowed us to get to the cost points that we’re driving to market.

And one thing I’ll say is, we’re not [even] being undercut by technologies that [we’re outperforming]. So we’re able to go in with very compelling technological and performance-based proposals that are also very cost competitive, and ultimately enable the business case of our market.

I think we can agree that there’s a tremendous amount of activity in this space. But investors that may take a look at lidar stocks will see that many of these names, including your own, have come under pressure. I think even Luminar stock is down something like 50% year to date, despite having a commercial OEM contract with Volvo, and a lot going on. So talk to us a little bit about the catalysts to getting that relationship to scale. What are some of the milestones for you?

The volatility is partially life as a public company. But I think that, you know, you touch on a really good point: our goal is to drive long term execution. 

If you look at the whole space that we’re often compared to, these lidar companies, the first thing is that most of them have jumped to this stage of their business without having a book of business that really requires them to build this much of a runway effectively. We did that well before [we became] a public company, which gives us a lot more strong stability of basis to stand on. 

And this pipeline is really quite rich. In these new emerging markets, success begets success. The work that we did with Volvo, we spent a long time with them over a lot of years — way before they even wrote an RFQ, Request for Quote,  for our program. And so we do this with all of our customers, or at least as many as we have the opportunity, to spend that early time working with them on their problem, understanding what they need to achieve, all the way through function, so that we can make sure that our technology serves their needs. 

Now, the fact that we’ve been doing that for long enough, aligns our roadmap very well with what we can do and what we can deliver now through our ecosystem — to what they’re trying to achieve. 

And so while the rest of the marketplace is trying to figure out how to put their sensors together to try to compete with what we’re doing, we’ve already moved two steps beyond that. We’re showing the OEM what’s possible with their vehicles. You know, we’re able to detect a child (dummy, for now) jumping out from behind a hidden cover, behind a car — 25 meters away from a car going 30 miles an hour. And we’re able to identify that, assess it as a threat that’s real, apply the brakes and stop the car. 

This is not something that vehicles on the road today can do, because there’s too much uncertainty in their detection. 

And so bringing that whole thread of requirements down from, “what do you detect, how much confidence do you need, how much time do you need to detect it, all the way down into how many measurements and points and at what range, what quality of measurement do I need in the sensor?” [That’s] really probably the biggest thing that differentiates us, which is why I urge [investors] to try to look [beyond] the spec sheet battles that exist out there and look [at] what’s being done with the sensors [now].  

Lidar is sufficiently complicated and too easy to spin into, into certain configurations that allow you to do certain things. But if you focus on what’s possible, the functions… And that’s really what we’re executing towards, and working that pipeline [for], to make sure we can bring as many folks in the marketplace along with that mission.

Most companies in the space seem to be focusing on Level Two, Level Three autonomous driving, where there’s still driver intervention and attention required. What do you think needs to happen from a technology perspective, to get commercial OEMs to feel comfortable, to meet safety standards, and to truly see that kind of mass commercial adoption that we want?

I think it has significantly less to do with autonomy and what people think about as “getting the human out of the loop,” and it has a lot more to do with what we can do with these technologies to make the vehicle operate more safely, regardless of who’s in control.

We all know, driving our cars…  I have a nice luxury car with lots of features. And I still don’t trust it to do most of these things, because I’ve seen it disengage enough. I’ve seen it not react to something that I probably figured that it should have. And it’s that trust, I think that’s really what drives what we call “proactive safety” and using this technology, because of how much confidence it has of knowing the environment at long ranges, without all the false alarms that come along with cameras and radar. That allows us to build a safety envelope from which self-driving can emerge, because that’s ultimately mostly a luxury feature. 

There’s of course some safety benefit to be had from a really good, always attentive robot driver. But if we can create that safety envelope with the technology in the first place — which is honestly even “Level Zero”– that doesn’t sound very sexy, but Level Zero are functions that are noncontinuous. So automatic emergency braking is technically Level Zero. And a lot of these things that really will move the needle in the economic benefits of safety —  avoiding crashes, not just making them less bad —  is what’s going to happen and move the industry forward. 

And as soon as we can create that safety envelope, is when we can start confidently deploying Level Three, Level Four technologies. And that’s really the kind of base that we’re driving toward. And, you know, look at Volvo. That’s what’s convinced them to standardize this technology in their vehicles– not the highway pilot that we’re going to be driving towards.

That’s the upside, and I think that’s really more and more the right way to think about it — both as a citizen of the world and as a business. Finding economic motivations to standardize technology is a much more long-lasting movement as a business than hoping for government regulation to say that “now thou must all have lidar” — [because that’s] just going to drive the technology towards low-cost at the expense of performance.

So if we can maintain performance, convince the economic case of safety, and the upside of autonomy in these systems, that’s where we see very exciting, very rapid adoption, across vehicles, across automakers and across the world.

So you touched on this idea of the “safety envelope” as being the largest really addressable market for this technology. But what are your thoughts on the futuristic world of robotaxis and Level Five autonomy? Is it possible? Is it a pipe dream? What technology changes do we need to get there? 

So a lot of people are talking about how Luminar is “pivoting from autonomy.” And at the end of the day, it’s really not. Our mission has always been to enable self-driving, to enable autonomy. Along that path is the identification that there’s this need to deliver safety for autonomy, and that it’s tremendously valuable to the consumer market.

And so it’s really something we definitely believe… that robotaxis, robotrucks — all these kinds of things are possible. And we’ve seen our customers do it. And I think that’s really the thing that motivates. So as a business, the real question comes down to where are the markets that are viable and have strong demand now. So we’re serving our technology partners like Mobileye (NASDAQ:MBLY) and doing robotaxis. We spend a lot of attention trying to drive them forward. We look at our partners like Daimler Trucks and trucking and a whole host of others, to drive that market forward.

The group that we’re seemingly focusing most on now with consumer markets, is what we need to do anyway — from a product, cost, scaling perspective — to be able to not be the long pole when those markets are mature. And actually pulling for demand and volume.

And so everything we’re doing now, still aims toward full higher levels of autonomy, because the sensing technology demand is still there. But the level of autonomy has very little to do with the sensor performance as much as vehicle speed does.

And so because we’re looking at delivering safety at all speeds, because we’re looking at doing highway autonomy, that drives the sensor requirements for all of these applications. You just need more of them to cover a larger field-of-view and other sensors for redundancy and things like that, to do higher levels of autonomy. But the sensor itself needs to do the same thing.

So our roadmap to enable all of these great things in consumer vehicles, is what we need to do anyway to make sure that autonomy can be realized down the road.

Are there any other adjacent technologies that need to improve for autonomous driving to see mass adoption?

So I think the real long pole is ultimately going to be the processors. So, the market is anchoring itself for this early wave of technologies in effectively, supercomputers. These are rather expensive, high-power consumption, very performant computer systems that bring all of this data in, process it to understand the environment in high confidence, and then build routes and things.

And that is the point at which will ultimately be the cost-driver and the power-driver for these systems. And so that’s the area that is being developed. But that’s kind of the way this all works. Once we define the systems, the architectures and the compute can come down, because it can be simplified. 

One of the cool things about lidar is it’s actually a much lower processing-intensive data stream, because it doesn’t have all the superfluous data that a camera stream has. I don’t need high resolution right here on this wall if it’s a wall. It’s flat, it’s the same color. And so lidar data gives you that more immediately actionable 3D data. But there’s actually less data than a camera, which gives you lots of not very actionable information. So being able to find ways like that to leverage the different sensors to build the processing requirements, gives a really nice roadmap to driving that down as well.

So you obviously have seen a lot of technology. What technologies on the horizon most excite you? What do you think is interesting right now?

Oh, man, that’s a good one. Honestly, I think that the more we do with vehicle function, the more important it’s going to be to understand how the now passenger, or changing between passenger and driver in the vehicles, are going to be interacting with the vehicle. And so this is something that, you know, we look at with our automaker customers, as well as other partners in the ecosystem to see, “how can the system really come and be completed into the vehicle?” We announced last week our partnerships with Webasto and Inalfa to figure out how to get all the sensors really nicely and cleanly integrated into the vehicles. 

But we need to think also into the future, how do we integrate the person? So thinking about that, as a system, is really kind of an exciting space.  How can we give this data to a human who wants to be driving, but wants the confidence and the assurance that the vehicle system around them knows what’s happening and can give good alerts, more than just lights on your dash. So that space is really kind of cool, as a consumer and as a technologist to see what’s going to come down the pipe to that driver experience when the vehicle knows more than you do.

Your comments and feedback are always welcome. Let’s continue the discussion. Email me at

Disclosure: On the date of publication, Joanna Makris did not have (either directly or indirectly) any positions in the securities mentioned in this article.

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